Jim Donini: 1959年Cesare Maestri 的攀登

jane · 发表于 2009-6-25 03:13

本帖最后由 jane 于 2009-6-24 19:18 编辑

关于1959年Cesare Maestri 的攀登， Jim Donini的评论：

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=825943
Rolando Garibotti的文章
http://www.americanalpineclub.or ... i_torre_aaj2004.pdf

mh · 发表于 2009-6-26 10:23

放下Maestri是否登顶这事，只说这些帖子，已经看到Jim Donini，John Long, Peter Haan, Michael Kennedy, WBraun这些有名人物。一个帖子的含金量比国内很多攀登论坛一辈子都多。大家很多都是用的实名或生活中的绰号。
还有些熟悉的老人'Pass the Piton' Peter, Karl Baba, Paulina, Dingus Milktoast，看来rec.climbing的很多老人儿都跑到这里来了。

jane · 发表于 2009-6-26 11:10

本帖最后由 jane 于 2009-6-26 03:29 编辑

是啊，是啊！那个帖子可以作为去Patagonia 地区的资料索引。

为了大家方便，我把Jim Bridwell在1980年爬Maestri"压缩机"线路的文章连接给出（见下），Bridwell大爷说话非常风趣，我边读边乐。Maestri因为他1959年登顶的说法被许多人怀疑，在七十年代他拿了70公斤的柴油压缩机打了300多棵钉子。压缩机路线离顶峰几十米下放弃了（压缩机至今还吊在那里呢），因为Maestri说”上面的不过是几十米的冰凇，指不定哪一会儿就被大风吹跑了，不是山峰的一部分，不值得爬。。。“ 因为最后一段是Bridwell队伍爬的，所以最后的pitch叫Bridwell pitch。

http://www.americanalpineclub.or ... bridwell%20cerro%22

mh · 发表于 2009-6-26 15:00

转几张图

这里有更多航拍的 http://www.flickr.com/photos/eduaresti/sets/72157601637011335/

当然还有，讽刺的不止是压缩机路线：

gump · 发表于 2010-2-2 18:23

天空wk3368 · 发表于 2010-2-3 15:00

白河工程队也去整一台压缩机？
只要20秒一个眼啊！

老无所依里面的杀手，提个气罐到处跑！

裂缝 · 发表于 2012-1-21 04:18

Hayden Kennedy and Jason Kruk made the first "fair-means" ascent of the infamous Compressor Route, Cerro Torre's Southeast Ridge.

THE MAJORITY OF THE BOLTS HAVE BEEN SHOPPED

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web1 ... -kennedy-kruk-flash

mh · 发表于 2012-1-21 13:11

攀上去很强，但移除50年历史的膨胀钉似乎有些做作了，是好是坏那已经应算是历史遗迹了。

自由的风 · 发表于 2012-1-21 23:27

是有点过分。以前很多人用这些Bolts下降。
这事办的不地道

mh · 发表于 2012-1-22 00:39

他们没都敲掉。他们可能用了压缩机线路上的锚点下降，这样的话很讽刺。不过现在消息还似乎在传闻阶段，当事者还没正式消息。

裂缝 · 发表于 2012-1-24 02:32

David Lama frees the Compressor route… while Kruk & Kennedy's bolt chopping is hotly debated

越吵越凶了.

http://www.planetmountain.com/en ... utm_medium=facebook

zenith · 发表于 2012-1-26 23:56

我对Kruk和Kennedy的之前的成功无比的欣喜，对最终由这2人结束几十年的孽债感到是上天挑了最合适的人——“顽固冒进”的老派的错误由“冒失的强悍”新生派粉碎。

很多人在攀登伦理上进退两难；但我之前一直看到Hayden Kennedy在这个漩涡中继承最优秀的传统，现在他已经形成了自己的风格，并且是建立在被更多人尊敬并接受的一种风格。这次是Kennedy这样的毛头小伙子（20岁）拿自己的风格第一次和世界的直接对话。晚辈挑出来直接挑战所有长辈，可能好多人在第一时间接受有点困难，但我个人认为大体上至少无错。

chopping bolts本身，相当一部分人不会完全认同；Compressor Route是历史上臭名昭著路线的典范，这被众人公认——所以，Kennedy和Kruk撬掉挂片这件事，不说无功，至少无过。而由这样没有道德捆绑的年轻人的来干这事，上天不能找到更合适的人了。

zenith · 发表于 2012-1-27 00:01

BD在早前有Hayden Kennedy完成Bachar/Yerian (5.11c R/X)的一则报道，不太了解小K的人可以看看。B/Y是摔断过Wolfgang Gullisch腿的著名testpiece。

Hayden Kennedy算是将门虎子，其父是Alpinist的主编。

zenith · 发表于 2012-1-27 00:14

相比之下，我个人觉得David Lama声称的first free ascent分量不大，理由有几个：
1.他是轴，为了弥补09年错误，为了捞回个人声誉；
2.之前的人因为有了这个bolts，真正在为了first free ascent而努力磕线的人不多，从2007年开始有人开始想free部分，这部分可以有合理的bolts的线路，而不可以有compressor route上的bolt ladder部分。D Lama首先是受到Kruk和Kennedy的inspiration后死磕下得（3天V.S. 13小时)
3.红牛的媒体炒作，在09年的关公危机后”要free一条线，挑那条线，不小心搞到了怎样对外宣传“，这一些列都是红牛要炒作的；而Kruk和Kennedy是爬自己的线，开创自己心中的那条线，他们的赞助商没有目标性的期望值。

所以稍微总结下，Lama是做了脱星后努力穿上衣服；Kruk和Kennedy光着漂亮的膀子上战场，仗打的漂亮，只是挂了些彩

zenith · 发表于 2012-1-27 14:58

本帖最后由 zenith 于 2012-1-27 15:55 编辑

Lama 09年风波的复习资料

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web1 ... ma-compressor-bolts

来自Hayden Kennedy和Jason Kruk的2012年真正首攀fair means对于chopping bolts的报告

Fair means does not mean no bolts. Reasonable use of bolts has been a long-accepted practice in this mountain range. Often, steep, blank granite would be folly without the sparing using of this type of protection. We clipped four bolts placed by Salvaterra on his variation - two in a belay and two for protection. At that point on the route, Hayden was short-fixing with a 35 meter loop of slack, surely a death-fall anyways. He could have clearly skipped them, but that's not the point. These bolts were placed in blank granite, by hand, on otherwise un-protectable terrain. Higher we used the bolt placed by Chris on our attempt last year. Five bolts for four hundred seemed like a pretty good trade to us. We also used two of Maestri's original belays on the headwall. These were in spots in close-proximity to other natural anchor options. Believe us, we know how to build gear anchors. The fact that we were planning on leaving these bolts in anyways, meant it was too silly not to use them on the ascent. Our ultimate goal was respect for the mountain. The headwall rappels could have been chopped and replaced by nuts and pitons. However, considering that on a beautiful and popular line there will inevitably be rappel anchors in place, it seemed more logical to leave the established anchors, rather than remove them, and let the anchors slowly degrade into the 5 and 6-piece rappel anchors of tattered cord that are found on other popular routes in the range.

The question that remains, is why? Maestri's actions were a complete atrocity. His use of bolts and heavy machinery was outrageous, even for the time. The Southeast Ridge was attainable by fair means in the '70s, he stole that climb from the future.

Who committed the act of violence against Cerro Torre? Maestri, by installing the bolts, or us, by removing them?

As long as the hardware remained it was justification for the unreasonable use of bolts by others. We are part of the next generation, the young group of aspiring alpinists. This is a statement we felt other young alpinists needed to hear.

看似像拥有问罪权的“未来少年”终于向“老贼”发难了。。。

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