jane 发表于 2005-2-26 08:43

关于 rope solo, 裂缝呢?

裂缝说了他用grigri做顶绳rope solo, 我也曾用过grigri, 但发现Reverso更保先e 险
不过用Reverso 的问题是得时不时停下来抽紧绳子。

我哥们 Richard是用两个卡式上升器,无齿的,不毁绳, 自动抽绳。他从Ebay上俄国人的店邮购的。说是质量不错。他建议买Super basic K Ti, 我订了两只,等拿到了,用过了之后再向大家汇报心得体会。
若是先锋solo, 和高人们探讨之后,看来   soloist 是群众的首选。       见到一人用soloist攀冰,真牛啊!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50814&item=7136580373&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V

自由的风 发表于 2005-2-26 09:06

看来找合适的搭档是一个老大难问题。

裂缝 发表于 2005-2-26 12:19

顶绳solo:
灰灰教我的手持上升器法,抽绳方便,爬高后几乎不用抽绳,绳子的重力就够了。问题是如果悬在半空的话,想下降比较困难。grigri容易下降,但抽绳相对麻烦些。
无论什么装置,都需要打8字作备份。

先锋solo:
曾考虑过没有同伴时怎么办,研究了一下。基本思路是在路线底作一个结实的anchor,腰间作一个受力后会自锁的装置,可以是双套结、silent partner,soloist,grigri等。到顶后作anchor,下降,拆底anchor,上升器上升,继续攀登。

我没有实际solo攀登的经验,只在公园里试了一下双套结系统。相当麻烦,一个双套结加2个8字备份,腰间的绳子一大堆,抽绳,紧绳也麻烦。但的确是可行的。
silent partner mh有一个,200多美刀!自身重量比较大。其原理和双套结是一样的,好处是自动给绳。
solosit没见过,据说安全性比silent pertner差,主要是万一你脱落时大头朝下,soloist就不起作用了。
还有人使用改造过的grigri,把送绳端的挡片锯掉,使绳子成一直线进出grigri,以方便抽绳。使用过的人反映说好用,安全性没问题。


真的要solo吗?
不论哪种系统,都比一个合格保护者麻烦。要作的事太多,不可能爬很难的线路,因此aid climbing中solo的多些,很难找到一个保护者有2-3小时/pitch的耐性。你会发现爬的很不爽。
在公园里试验的时候,一段20米,5把快挂的距离(平地,走,但绳子系统是一回事),用了2小时。

在sports climbing中,顶绳work时solo的也有,原因也是找不到一个belay slave让你不停的尝试,吊在半空休息。

从安全性来说,也需慎重。一旦受伤,后果很严重。在富民时摔了膝盖,但还得爬上去收绳。没有人知道我在哪,手机也没有信号。好在伤的不重,线路也在公路边,试想一下相反的情况?比如在云蒙峡的这次,没有老爱的话,我怎么才能下这700米的冰岩坡呢?接着就是天黑,气温零下10度,况且后面还有5公里崎岖不平的山路?

也许这2次摔傻了,我基本放弃了先锋solo的念头,只会在开线或work难线时顶绳solo,而且要有人在附近。这也是我给你的一点小小建议。

SOLOMAN 发表于 2005-2-26 12:42

我经常用手柄上升器solo。下降时的确有点麻烦,而且起步时抽绳太烦,最好在绳子底端挂上一点什么重物。

jane 发表于 2005-2-26 13:03

我顶绳solo已有两年多了, 除了Reverso, 也试过triaxion和手柄上升器, grigri(未改装的)。

上升器有可能偶而脱离绳子。

我每次独自进山前,会给至少一个朋友留话,告诉他们我的去处和回家时间,若是超时就叫他们打电话报警。

去年我solo了一座小小的雪山 (Mt. Athabasca)。圣诞后solo了一条六十米长的二级水冰瀑布。。 。无绳的速度,自由和恐惧。

一篇比较详细的rope solo 总结文章链接:。
http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/therockzone/selfbelay.html

mh 发表于 2005-2-27 11:41

ushba的上升器我给别人买过,买来后研究了一阵。如果你上边的thebikezone的文章
(文章不错)说的问题属实的话,也许俄国的这些无齿上升器用于SOLO并不那么好。

用上升器吊在半空改为下降并不用向这篇文章的8c部分说的那么麻烦:
1: 把下降器和上升器底下的松绳按速降方式整好
2:抬腿,把下降器底下的松绳绕几圈在脚上
3:手同时握松的绳子和上升器下面的紧的部分,用脚站起来(这时下降器受力)
4:卸了不受力的上升器
5:下移重心,开始速降

jane 发表于 2005-2-28 01:04

说是Ushba 的Super basic K和文中所提的basic 有一定的不同。    到底有多少不一样,不知道。
问题是Yates/ISC/TrollRocker得用粗绳 ,制造商说至少 11毫米, 虽说有人用10.5mm的。。

PetzlMIcrosender   和 Rocker 都能熔绳皮。。。。      
看来还得再好好研究。

jane 发表于 2005-3-2 09:35

MH请看,TR solo的条件没有上边的thebikezone的文章中所用的那么苛刻。我问了USHBA的Serguei,这里贴上他激情万分的回答以及我和Richard的讨论:

1. From Serguei the Ushba seller:
"........."So, look at this "A guide to self belay and fall arrest techniques..."
careful again. One thing only shows that this review is just a dirty
advertising article but not a honest independent review.

First question: How the device witch is just a poor copy of USHBA Basic
became the best in the test and a similar USHBA's is the worst? Look at the
Troll Rocker and USHBA. You see the USHBA has a "U"-groove on the cams at
both ends so that the rope isn't cut, but the Troll has flat simple cams. If
the devices have a similar designs what of them will cut the rope first
under superior load?



After that I'm sure they didn't make any taste at all !!! Why? See it:



"In tests for Lyon Equipment this device severed the rope each time its
ability to catch a fall was tested..."


Just because the USHBA's Basic will be broken first before rope damage!!!
And it is impossible to cut many ropes by one device. Ural-Alp's crash test
show that the pin with fix a small came will be broken first by the load min
530kg (it is far exceeds UIAA and CE requirements). After that, even with
such damage the USHBA's will catch the rope well and only now if increase
the load it will be the question how the rope is strong.........."

2. Richard的评论

I didn't mention the "U" grooves but the USHBA devices do have those.I
have no idea who copied who but the main factor affecting pinching of the
rope may be the orientation of the device.They all rotate some amount when
weighted.I really love the roller in the USHBA that allows you to jug up
the rope.The Rocker does not have this.It's good to see the Russians
defending their product as it shows me their pride in quality.Just follow
the rules I mentioned in my last E-mail and you will be fine.Another
unrelated but big worry is rope abrasion over an edge.I almost cut through
one rope jugging up with a heavy pack....I had backup.The caver's Bible,
now a little old, "On Rope" covers this.Dynamic ropes actually wear worse
due to their stretch and given the same edge, wear will be different
depending on how much rope is hanging before the load.I can get you more
info on this if you're interested.I think you made the right choice. RG
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